There is a scene from one of my favorite movies Karol, where Thomasz the Polish priest is forced to eat dinner with Reichmeister Hans Frank and listen to him dispel the jewish populaton. You feel Thomasz agony at being forced to sit through the dinner and listen to these horrible insults, cringing at everything Hans Frank says. He becomes so frustrated at one point he even cries. If he tries to leave he will be shot but he knows he can't continue to listen much longer. Finally he can't take it any more and stands up screaming at everyone at the table. Then he walks out and you know he will die soon but he couldn't keep quiet. How could he?
On Saturday we went to a dinner. It was supposed to be a fun and relaxing night but there was a scene straight out of the movie. My food got stuck in my throat. I was uncomfortable. I was disappointed. I was irate. Finally I was simply bored because everything that the person said afterwards left me cold and I disinterested. I was eager to leave.
Later I was angry at myself for not having spoken up. I blame myself for being caught off guard but by not speaking up wasn't I agreeing? Did everyone else assume I agreed? I should have said something but I felt like Thomasz. I felt outnumbered. Seb said our silence spoke volumes but I still felt like we should have disagreed louder.
I really don't understand how people can continue to hate so much. This isn't the first time I've been confronted with racism in France. What is wrong with people that they can't see beyond their front door. Why are people so full of hate? What makes these people say such things out loud? Are they hoping to find people who agree with them? Do they read newspapers or books? I wonder if they do read regularly how can they make such sweeping observations?
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The movie Karol: a Man who Became Pope is wonderful. The actors are stunning (and easy on the eyes, ahem) and the story of JP II's early life is completely captivating. This isn't the same film that was made for American tv a few years ago. This film is more philisophical than biographical and poses lots of interesting questions about violence and predjudices. It may be hard to find as a rental but it's good enough to add to your permanent dvd collection.
Btw this particular racist comment was directed towards women who wear a veil. Many of the racist comments you hear in France are directed towards the North African muslim community. I was thinking about this short film from Paris Je T'aime yesterday which is kind of silly (with really dumb dialogue or bad acting --can't decide which) but anyway it's still kind of cute.
On Saturday we went to a dinner. It was supposed to be a fun and relaxing night but there was a scene straight out of the movie. My food got stuck in my throat. I was uncomfortable. I was disappointed. I was irate. Finally I was simply bored because everything that the person said afterwards left me cold and I disinterested. I was eager to leave.
Later I was angry at myself for not having spoken up. I blame myself for being caught off guard but by not speaking up wasn't I agreeing? Did everyone else assume I agreed? I should have said something but I felt like Thomasz. I felt outnumbered. Seb said our silence spoke volumes but I still felt like we should have disagreed louder.
I really don't understand how people can continue to hate so much. This isn't the first time I've been confronted with racism in France. What is wrong with people that they can't see beyond their front door. Why are people so full of hate? What makes these people say such things out loud? Are they hoping to find people who agree with them? Do they read newspapers or books? I wonder if they do read regularly how can they make such sweeping observations?
The movie Karol: a Man who Became Pope is wonderful. The actors are stunning (and easy on the eyes, ahem) and the story of JP II's early life is completely captivating. This isn't the same film that was made for American tv a few years ago. This film is more philisophical than biographical and poses lots of interesting questions about violence and predjudices. It may be hard to find as a rental but it's good enough to add to your permanent dvd collection.
Btw this particular racist comment was directed towards women who wear a veil. Many of the racist comments you hear in France are directed towards the North African muslim community. I was thinking about this short film from Paris Je T'aime yesterday which is kind of silly (with really dumb dialogue or bad acting --can't decide which) but anyway it's still kind of cute.
12 comments:
I know exactly the kinds of comments you are talking about. I heard a lot of them fifteen years ago when I lived in France, although the veils didn't start being such a big deal until a few years after that.
Your silence did probably speak volumes to anyone who was paying any attention. The trouble with speaking out is that rarely you will change anyone's mind. I only say something if asked directly. Otherwise I tend to not say anything at all. And then wonder if I should have, just like you.
I can appreciate how difficult it is to say anything. I have sat through racist comments and done the same. Sometimes I speak up, sometimes not, it really depends on the situation and how likely my comments are to be heard. The likelihood that you would have made a difference is very small. Don't berate yourself.
Silence speaks volumes. It does NOT imply agreement. I'm not outspoken and would have reacted like you did --- silently seething and greatly disappointed in the company. I was in the company of some of my female acquaintances and one used a racial slur. My jaw dropped (as did a few others) and the subject was quickly changed by another woman and moved on from there. Afterwards, I was ashamed that I didn't call her out but, well, I am a wimp. I do not, however, go anywhere with this woman anymore. I can't get over her use of that particular word.
I think some of the others felt the same way because someone did eventually change the subject. It was a dinner with three couples and the others cracked some jokes but mostly aimed *at* the hostess and her bogeyman fears. Still I think even cracking jokes was inapropriate but I think it was aimed at gently easing in to another subject.
It was a really uncomfortable 10 minutes for me and Seb. We ate a lot of bread and as soon as we both got in the car doors closed we said "can you believe she said that!?"
It is not just in France - here too comments are made that leave you reeling. The year I taught was an eye opener as high students made such racially charged statements (with people from all races sitting around them) that I would lecture them on tolerance and state that anything less would not be accepted in my classroom. With the recent inaguration, my daughter came home and repeated what a classmate said about our new First Lady - try explaining bigotry to a seven year old. I too am just stunned when I hear blatantly racist/sexist statements, but there are time when I too have remained silent. It is not easy to call some out in a social setting, and in the end, it would not change their view.
Please don't confuse racism with religious criticism. There is a huge difference and most fanatical religions deserve criticism. Racism is a whole differnt story. There are many radical branches of christianity that equally deserve criticism - but why most people don't label that as racism is a mystery. I don't believe an oppressed woman in a veil is a subject of racism, but rather that of psychological disorder. At the American church a couple weaks ago, the preacher talked about a story when he was a preacher in Illinois. A man came in dressed in traditional Jesus dress, with 2 women who weren't allowed to talk. They asked if they could sleep in the church for the night. So the preacher wanted to talk to them before he gave them an answer. He found the man's treatment of the woman very un-Jesus-like. And the man's behavior as well. To sum it up - he said "No, they can't sleep in the church." And the man became very angry and acted even less like Jesus would have. Basically this says - just because you dress in "Godly" clothes, doesn't make you any closer to God or faith than anyone else.
Again - racism does not equal religious criticism.
Anon the comment was about racist as you can get. It wasn't an intelligent discourse about a type of religion, it was racist as in "what are these people doing taking over our country with their veils and funny way of doing things and hopefully Sarkozy will do something about it and get rid of them"...(cue me getting hot under the collar...NOT a fan of Sarkozy at all)
I enjoy debating religion even though I'm not religious. I find it facinating and full of history and interesting lessons in humanity. I love what it teaches us about how we live now and how we've lived through the past. But I think your preacher's story is waaaaaay off kilter. What kind of preacher criticises other religions in his own congregation? Who on earth takes time for such things with the state of the world today?! It's not up to him to decide which religions are GODLY or UNgodly. I would have been seething during the sermon and probably would have gotten up and walked out. The nerve! I presume he's trying to inspire you with words. Isn't that why he's there? Why draw in another religion only to dismantle it? He should stick to what he knows. It's not his job to sit there and to say one religion is right and one religion is wrong. What's the point? What was his point? If you can explain that to me then I will believe your "racism does not equal religious criticism" remark.
ps. It's always a good idea to sign your name to comments on the internet (even a fake one). It's not for me. It's for you if you care about what you're trying to say. It carries more weight if you put your name to something.
I believe you missed the point about the preacher of the American Church of Paris, which is well reputed in the French community and abroad. He didn't mention anything about any other religion, nor did I state that. The comparison is that of wearing "religous clothing" without acting religous. Just because someone dresses in "religious gear" whether a veil or a "Jesus" sweatshirt does not make them any closer to God. Period. It was not a comparison of any religion. My personal interpretation is that of the Muslim fanatics we see all throughout France. I say fanatics because those who are fanatical about their religions, choose an attire perhaps out of the literal context of their holy book. The logic behind the veil is completely sexist and repressive. And whether they need to wear it to "comply" with a so-called God who supposedly created all humans equally. I believe the subject deserves discussion and criticsim. It's not a perfect world, we can only be the change we want to see. However, there are some in all faiths who choose to commit violent acts in the name of their Gods. I believe passionately that there is no need to segregate men from women, just like used to take place with blacks and whites. You can make all the excuses in the world, but I suspect you're extremely sensitive to debate. If they were saying they need to deport all the Arabs, that is more racist. But try to understand their rationale. We are living in a dangerous world. Silence and tolerance is exactly how the Nazis succeeded.
Here are a couple of examples that I particularly enjoy:
http://www.spike.com/video/wafa-sultan-clashes/2703896
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYB4pG3kHIY&feature=related
ANON
Oh okay it's in France. The American church HERE. I still think it was an odd story to talk about. Nobody is saying they are closer to God by the way they dress. I don't think the muslim community feels they are closer to God do they? Is this what you're trying to say because it has nothing to do with my story and it's kind of out of the blue.
I have absolutely no problem with women wearing a veil (veil not a burqua mind you--the Taliban is a religious cult which is completely different). These women are expressing their faith through covering their heads just like a jewish person who wears a kippah might or a buddhist who puts on a prayer shawl might. This just looks like opression to you but it's their culture. It's not something we understand but we don't have to because it's their faith not ours and it's not our place to judge them or say that they don't belong in our world. Remember we are not here to be the religious police of the world.
I am not sensitive to debate but I think a debate in this case at this dinner party would have fallen on dumb ears.
Obviously you have your reasons for remaining ANON but I think it's very weak of you to hide behind a shadow and try to make a point. If you believe what you're saying is valid then you wouldn't have to hide. What gives?
During prayer it is totally understandable, or in a place of worship. An every-day attire is another story. You should really try to understand both the cultural and relgious meanings behind the veil and burka. It is mere sexism and a societal divider. You can "stand in the shadows of ignorance," but you shouldn't seek to diminish discussion on the subject, nor become outwardly offended if the French feel their country has been inundated by not only immigrants, but a group who shares very little culturally or religiously. You've been in France long enough to know that the French love debate, discussion, especially at dinner parties. Only an American would be so sensitive to get easily offended. It might be another story if they were saying "we need to kill all....so and so race."
Guess what? This is a world with borders. Illegal immigration is everywhere, whether in the US or Europe, it is a subject worth discussing, worth criticizing and avoiding the label "racist" for saying there should be limits on immigration. Until the world is border-free, you should avoid labeling anyone who questions immigration - legal or not - as racist.
Being anonymous is about privacy. You don't know me. I don't know you. So why does it matter if I write my name? I am not a well-known public figure, nor do I feel ashamed to speak as I believe. Not everyone feels they need to go publish a blog to prove to the world they exist. If you are that disgruntle about anonymous comments - disable them. Then you'll make sure you only have "loving and supportive" comments from your "friends."
I suppose comment moderation would put a handle on hateful and unsupportive comments from anonymous trolls. Bon courage Misschris.
The women we're talking about in this discussion are not illegal immigrants any more than we are (well, I'm assuming *you* aren't illegal--you never know). They aren't all "sans-papiers" just because they wear a different uniform than you or I. Why do you automatically presume that the discussion was about illegal immigrants? I never mentioned that.
Being American has nothing to do with being offended by these comments. My husband was offended too and he's French. They were innappropriate comments. They were racist comments belittling a culture of people just because they're different. It wasn't an intellectual UN roundtable discussion about immigration. It was a series of rude comments meant to lead the discussion into a more sinister direction.
I won't moderate my blog comments because it seems silly to think I'd have to do that. The internet is an open forum and so is a blog. It's just a matter of having good internet manners to sign your name that's all, especially when you're playing in someone else's sandbox :)
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